In a previous lesson, we talked about forming the passive voice with the verb venire (to come) instead of the usual verb essere (to be). We mentioned that it is similar to using "get" in English (although using "get" this way is frowned upon by some grammar experts).
In this lesson, we'll talk about another verb used to form the passive. This time we use the verb andare (to go) and although the procedure is roughly the same as for venire and essere, the context and purpose, as well as the meaning, are slightly different.
We use andare to form the passive voice when something has to be done, must be done. Whereas with venire, we might be talking about something done regularly, or about how something is carried out, here, with andare, we're talking about obligation. And, we can think of it as often referring to something in the future. Again, the verb andare (in its passive voice role) is always in the third person and is followed (perhaps with an adverb in between) by the past participle of a transitive verb.
One of the most common verbs to put in the passive voice with andare is the verb fare (to do). Because there are always so many things we have to do or should have done! In this first example, Andromeda could also have used venire to say, "this is how it is done," but she evidently wanted to stress that ice cream has to be made with fresh ingredients, because they are ingredients that can go bad (dairy products and eggs).
Il gelato è un prodotto molto nutriente, va fatto con ingredienti freschi, freschissimi.
Ice cream is a very nutritious product; it has to be made with fresh, very fresh ingredients.
Captions 6-7, Andromeda in - Storia del gelato - Part 2
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Prova a verificare se ci sono persone che possiedono serpenti da quelle parti. Vanno denunciati, mi pare, no?
Try to see if there are people who possess snakes around those parts. They should be reported, I think, right?
Captions 78-80, Imma Tataranni Sostituto procuratore S1 EP5 Rione Serra Venerdì - Part 7
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Here, the meaning is clear. Zamagna is a doctor who had to remove some tumors.
Zamagna sa quello che fa. Se l'ha fatto, vuol dire che andava fatto.
Zamagna knows what he is doing. If he did it, it means it had to be done.
Captions 31-32, La linea verticale EP3 - Part 3
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The next example features the conditional form of andare, which indicates uncertainty. So in this case, it's not strongly obligatory.
E, capisco signora, vede, eh... questa cucina andrebbe rifatta tutta da capo.
And, I understand, Ma'am, you see, uh... this kitchen should be done over from scratch.
Captions 31-32, Un medico in famiglia Stagione 3 S3EP4 Lo stagno del ranocchio - Part 7
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Let's keep in mind that to form the negative, we just put non before the verb andare.
Una porta chiusa non la puoi aprire, perché dietro chissà cosa sta facendo il personale medico, che non va disturbato per nessuna ragione.
You can't open a closed door, because behind it, who knows what the medical personnel is doing, who mustn't be disturbed for any reason.
Captions 62-64, La linea verticale EP 5 - Part 4
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There are different ways to translate these passive phrases, but the main thing is to get a sense of when venire and andare work better than essere in expressing meaning and tone. And we hope you feel better prepared to understand when you are encountering these unusual passive forms.
In English, we form the passive voice using the verb "to be" plus the preposition "by" and the past participle of the action (transitive) verb. That is true in Italian too. We use the verb essere (to be), the preposition da, and the past participle of the transitive verb.
Here is an example:
Londra. È stato venduto a un'asta di gioielli da Christie's.
London. It was sold at a jewelry auction at Christie's.
Caption 2, La Ladra EP. 12 - Come ai vecchi tempi - Part 4
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See this lesson for an overview of the passive voice in Italian.
But there are other ways of forming the passive voice in Italian and it can be a bit confusing. If we think of using "get" in English (informally), it might be a bit less confusing. For example:
The paper gets delivered every morning at six.
We could also say:
The paper is delivered every morning at six.
Using "get" makes the sentence feel more active, while having a passive construction. We don't really need to know who delivers the paper so the passive voice is handy in this case. There is no apparent agent or doer.
In Italian, in addition to using the verb essere, we can form the passive voice with the "auxiliary" verb venire (to come). In fact, it is often considered to be more formal than using essere. But, as with "get," it's also a more active way of using the passive voice.
It's easy to forget this kind of passive construction because venire is also a common action verb. When we use it in the passive voice, as an auxiliary, it doesn't really mean "to come." At least, not if we are translating. If we translate it with "get," it might be easier to grasp as part of the passive construction.
While it's useful to know the grammar, the best thing is to listen or read and repeat. Hearing venire used in everyday (passive) contexts will help you assimilate it and then get accustomed to using it when appropriate. Let's look at some examples.
Keep in mind that:
1) the passive voice has to do with transitive verbs,
2) using venire as a passive auxiliary works only with simple tenses of the "action verb," not compound ones,
3) when using venire, there is usually no agent, called complemento d'agente, no doer.
4) venire is often used instead of essere to avoid confusion (we'll look at some examples further down on the page).
Ed è proprio per la sua fattura [che] non viene chiamata "farina", ma "semola".
And it is precisely because of its processing [that] it's not called "flour," but "semolina."
Captions 14-15, Vocaboliamo La pasta - Part 3
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L'ispettore Ginko è figlio di un giudice che viene arrestato per corruzione.
Inspector Ginko is the son of a judge who is arrested for corruption.
Captions 18-19, Fumettology Diabolik - Part 5
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In this next example, the verb venire is in the future tense.
Domani verrà convocato Giulio Bruno, eh.
Tomorrow, Giulio Bruno will be summoned, huh.
Caption 60, Imma Tataranni Sostituto procuratore S1 EP3 I giardini della memoria - Part 19
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Of course, venire is also an action verb, so we might find the same future tense used with no participle after it. In the following example, it really does mean "to come" and is not forming any passive voice.
Stamattina mi ha telefonato Franco, mio figlio, ha detto che verrà a trovarmi a Natale.
This morning, Franco called me, my son, he said he will come and see me at Christmas.
Captions 62-63, I Bastardi di Pizzofalcone EP4 Gelo - Part 16
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Here, we have venire in the third person plural of venire.
Di solito questi luoghi diventano musei, dove gli antichi attrezzi vengono appesi alle pareti come vestigia di un passato remoto e obsoleto,
Usually, these places become museums, where old tools are hung on the walls as vestiges of a remote and obsolete past,
Captions 27-29, Formaggi D'autore - Part 5
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If, instead of using the verb venire, we use the verb essere to form the passive, it won't be wrong, but it might be confusing. If we use essere we can imagine the tools already hanging on the wall: gli attrezzi sono appesi alle pareti (the tools are hanging on the walls and appesi answers the question "where"), but with venire, we can picture the action of hanging the tools on the wall.
Here is a final example where the verb venire is in the imperfetto.
È vero che Suo fratello a scuola veniva chiamato Cenerentola?
Is it true that your brother was called Cinderella at school?
Caption 6, Imma Tataranni Sostituto procuratore S1 EP3 I giardini della memoria - Part 26
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Further exploration:
For each of these examples in the passive voice, try replacing the verb venire with essere. They might work equally well. Try using "get" instead of "to be" in English. Try transforming the passive phrases into active ones.
Finally, in the video tab, do a search of various conjugations of venire and see if you can distinguish the examples that have to do with the passive voice (hint: look for a past participle following it). It's kind of fun.
In a future lesson, we will discuss another "auxiliary" verb we can use to form the passive voice: andare (to go). It works much the same way as venire but has a different feel to it as well as a different function.
Learning Italian by ear is the best way to jump in, to start talking to people, to communicate. Listen, repeat. And sometimes you'll get it wrong. You'll leave out a little word, you'll get the gender wrong. And a lot of the time you don't really know the grammar of what you are saying. This happens in one's own language as well. But if you are communicating, you are already doing a lot more than people who are scared to utter even one word without knowing the grammar.
Sometimes, though, you get curious or you get stymied. Why do they say this or that?
This lesson has three main sections. If you are already well-versed in how to use the passive voice, you can skip to venire and andare (this might or might not be new for you) or you can skip all the way to the si passivante. However, you might have better luck understanding the si passivante if you go through all the steps. If, on the other hand, it's all pretty daunting, skip right down to The passive voice goes with transitive verbs!, then read about venire (to come) and andare (to go) but skip the last section on the si passivante.
A while back, one of our readers did get curious and stymied when she saw the following caption in a documentary video about the beautiful southern Italian city, Matera, and asked, "Why did they use essere instead of avere here?" After all, sistemare is a transitive verb.
Quando si è sistemata la piazza nel millenovecentonovantuno,
When the piazza was renovated in nineteen ninety-one,
ci si è accorti che il palombaro, cioè questa grande cisterna,
they noticed that the "palombaro", that is, this large cistern,
era colmo fino all'orlo.
was full to the brim.
Captions 12-13, Meraviglie - EP. 1
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Her question was actually quite well-founded. It turns out it has to do with a grammatical phenomenon called the si passivante (the si that "fakes" or "allows" a passive voice). Frankly, some of us non-native speakers have lived in Italy and spoken Italian for years without even hearing a peep about this si passivante. There are a great many Italians, too, who will say, Boh? (who knows?), when you ask them about the si passivante, so don't worry if you don't get it. But if you are slightly nerdy, you might just want to know (read on or scroll way down...).
Daniela has mentioned this in a video about the passive voice in Italian. So maybe it's time to do some explaining. We'll get there, little by little, but let's back up a bit, hoping to make things clear as we go. In fact, let's back way up.
To understand the passive voice, let's start out with the active voice (backing up even further). And let's keep it simple.
We have an active sentence with a subject, a transitive verb, and an object.
Active: Il contadino guida il trattore (The farmer drives the tractor).
Il contadino is the subject (and the agent), guidare (to drive) is the verb in the third person singular, and il trattore (the tractor) is the direct object.
To form the passive, we take the direct object from the active sentence, put it at the beginning (in the subject slot), we use the conjugated auxiliary essere (to be) + the past participle of the verb, the preposition da (by), and then the agent (the ex-subject). Here's what it looks like:
Passive: Il trattore è guidato dal contadino (the tractor is driven by the farmer).
So the Italian passive voice, at least at this point, is similar to English. And just as in English, we add the preposition da (by) before the agent (il contadino [the farmer] in this case).
Just to see what happens, let's use some plurals. Here, the subject is plural (the students) and the object is singular (the winner).
Gli studenti scelgono il vincitore (the students choose the winner).
Let's put in the passive and see what happens.
Il vincitore è scelto dagli studenti (the winner is chosen by the students).
The verb essere agrees with the new subject, il vincitore (a masculine noun), so there is an o at the end of scelto.
If it had been la vincitrice, it would have been:
La vincitrice è scelta dagli studenti.
Extra practice: After you have read further about different ways to construct the passive voice (with venire and andare), try using them in place of essere.
1,2) Use another verb in place of essere for the two sentences above. Let's say we are talking about the rules of the competition.
But what if the subject (of the active sentence) is singular and the object is plural?
Il presidente della classe sceglie i candidati (the president of the class chooses the candidates).
I candidati sono scelti dal presidente della classe (the candidates are chosen by the president of the class).
We notice that the agreement is between the new subject (ex-object) and the verb (i candidati sono scelti).
Extra 3) Here, too, try using another verb in place of essere. We're talking about the rules of the competition.
As Daniela said in her lesson about the passive voice, we can use the passive voice when we have a transitive verb such as scegliere (to choose).
That is key. That's the main thing you have to remember about the passive voice as we move on to murkier waters.
OK so far?
Let's go one step further into the weeds. Let's go into a compound tense such as the passato prossimo (that conjugates like the present perfect, but is often translated with [and represents] the simple past tense).
Il presidente ha scelto una ragazza (the president chose a girl).
Let's see what happens in the passive voice:
Una ragazza è stata scelta dal presidente (a girl was chosen by the president).
So far, so good. Fin qui ci siamo.
Now, we're going to put a new twist on the passive voice.
There is another verb pair that Italians use to form the passive voice, more often than you might think: venire (to come) and andare (to go). Who knew? These have a slightly different feeling and purpose. We could look at these verbs as more of an active-type, passive tense (although perhaps that's an oxymoron). If you think of times when we use "get" instead of "to be" in passive sentences, it might make more sense. We often use venire when we're talking about how things are done, or things that are done on a continuing basis, and we use andare when we're talking about things that have to get done.
Let's start with venire.
If I am telling you the rules of how candidates are chosen, for example, or how they get chosen, I might use venire (to come).
Active: Il presidente sceglie il vicepresidente. The president chooses the vice-president.
Passive: Il vicepresidente viene scelto dal presidente. The vice-president gets chosen by the president.
4a, 4b, 4c, 4d, 4e, 4f) Try putting these sentences in the imperfetto (this is how they did things in the past), in the simple future (this is how they are planning to do things), and in the conditional (how, hypothetically, things could work).
The rule is that venire and andare are only used in simple tenses. In compound tenses you use essere. This is a good thing to know, perhaps, but you probably won't want to even try it. We already use the past participle of the transitive verb in the passive voice, so having another one in the same sentence would make a big mess. So don't worry about it. You can use these with the simple future or imperfetto (see the solutions to the exercise above at the end of the lesson).
The comforting thing is, however, that if you just listen, and notice that, "Oh yeah! People do use this venire in the passive sometimes," you will get accustomed to hearing it in certain types of situations. Certain moments just call for it and pretty soon, you will get a feel for it because you will have heard it so many times. And then, you will start using it yourself, with a smile on your face, and plenty of well-earned pride. You just need to pay attention and be aware that it exists.
Let's talk about andare, which might seem a bit weirder, but here's a typical example.
Non ho i soldi per riparare il tetto, ma va fatto. Piove in casa! (I don't have the money to repair the roof, but it has to be done. The roof is leaking!)
The repairman walks on my kitchen floor with his dirty shoes and apologizes.
Ho sporcato il pavimento, mi dispiace (I got the floor dirty, sorry).
I reply (even if it's not true...):
Non fa niente. Va lavato (don't worry. It needs to get washed).
Non fa niente. Andrebbe lavato (don't worry. It should get washed).
Il pavimento is masculine, so I used the o ending on the past participle of lavare.
5) What if the repairman speaks while he is walking on the floor?
6) What if the repairman doesn't really want to involve himself personally. Maybe he would use the si passivante!?!
Let's say I am helping you make lunch. I take the lettuce out of the fridge and ask you:
Va lavata l'insalata (does the lettuce need to get washed)?
-No, è già lavata (no, it's already washed).
You notice that insalata is feminine, so the past participle of lavare agrees with it and therefore has a feminine ending.
There's a great example of using andare to form the passive in the movie (on Yabla) "Sei mai stata sulla luna?." A lawyer is telling Guia she has to take care of the guy who works the land she inherited. He uses the conditional to "soften the blow." She wants to know if she has a choice.
Andrebbe sistemato anche lui.
He should get taken care of as well.
Andrebbe o va? -Va.
He should be or he has to be? -He has to be.
Va.
He has to be.
Captions 54-56, Sei mai stata sulla luna? - film
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So the answer is: Va sistemato (he must get taken care of). She has no choice.
The verb sistemare brings us to the matter that started this whole ball rolling: the si passivante. Since we can't very well write a book (this lesson is already way too long), you might want to check out the lessons about the particella (particle) si. Si has various functions, and it's hard to be sure which is which sometimes, but since we are deep in the weeds, we will try to persevere. In fact, the si passivante is a variation on the si impersonale and like venire and andare, is only used with simple tenses, not compound ones. It's also only used with transitive verbs (because it has to do with the passive voice).
The following example is what our reader wrote to us about.
Quando si è sistemata la piazza nel millenovecentonovantuno,
When the piazza was renovated in nineteen ninety-one,
ci si è accorti che il palombaro, cioè questa grande cisterna,
they noticed that the "palombaro", that is, this large cistern,
era colmo fino all'orlo.
was full to the brim.
Captions 12-13, Meraviglie - EP. 1
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First let's note that when we have a transitive verb such as sistemare, in an active sentence anyway, we usually use the auxiliary avere, as in the following example:
Hanno sistemato la piazza (they renovated the piazza or they have renovated the piazza).
If we put it in the passive voice, the rule is that we need the auxiliary essere (or in some cases, venire) + da (by) + past participle of the verb. The participle has to agree with the (new) subject.
So we could say:
La piazza è stata sistemata [dal comune] (the piazza was renovated [by the town]).
We can also leave out the part in brackets. La piazza is the subject, but not the actor or agent. The town is the agent.
We can use different tenses in the passive, such as, for example, the future:
La piazza sarà sistemata... (the piazza will be renovated).
Or
La piazza è sistemata regolarmente dal comune (the piazza is renovated regularly by the town).
La piazza viene sistemata regolarmente dal comune (the piazza gets renovated regularly by the town).
But in the caption in question, it's a little different. We have that pesky si that can mean so many things and cause confusion for non-native speakers. It's not a true passive sentence. It's also not a reflexive sentence because the piazza can't renovate itself. Here it is again:
Si è sistemata la piazza (the piazza was renovated).
We have a transitive verb, sistemare, and we have the (ex-) object of sistemare (la piazza) but we don't have an agent at all. One key aspect is that we could also put the sentence in the plural. Let's say there are 2 piazzas.
Si sono sistemate le piazze (the piazzas were renovated).
The passive aspects that are present are: sistemare is a transitive verb, the auxiliary verb essere is used, and the past participle of the verb is used.
The passive aspects that are not present, are: there is no preposition da (by) and there is no agent. So, si is a kind of prop-word (or, we could say, a kind of si impersonale). It stands in for the absent agent. Since the sentence has the feeling of a passive voice, because of some of its characteristics, such as the past participle, the particle si is called a si passivante (a si that makes something passive).
So it looks kind of like a passive sentence, it sounds kind of like a passive sentence, but it isn't a true passive sentence. It still gets translated like the passive, however, because there's no real equivalent for the si passivante in English.
The sentence also looks like it uses an impersonal si. But a characteristic of the [normal] si impersonale is that it is always in the third person singular, and is often used with intransitive verbs (so there won't be a direct object). It is often a stand-in for an unspecified person. In our case, we have seen that we could have used the same construction in the plural.
The si also looks like the reflexive si. Sistemarsi does exist as a reflexive verb. Here's an example of the reflexive verb sistemarsi (to get settled): The person is talking to a female.
Stai bene? Sei arrivata?
Are you well? Did you get there?
Ti sei sistemata? Sei in clinica?
Did you settle in? Are you at the clinic?
Captions 15-16, Sposami - EP 1
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We have come to a stopping place on our grammatical journey. There's undoubtedly more to say, and there will be questions. But once you get into the swing of things, all these different passives, and all these different si's will just start being part of your tool kit. And with Yabla videos, you will start noticing how things work, how people say things. You'll go back to listening and repeating, but with more awareness.
1) Il vincitore viene scelto dagli studenti (the winner gets chosen by the students).
2 La vincitrice viene scelta dagli studenti.
3) I candidati vengono scelti dal presidente della classe (the candidates are chosen by the president of the class).
4a) Active: [In quell'epoca] il presidente sceglieva il vicepresidente. [In those days,] the president would choose the vice-president.
4b) Passive: Il vicepresidente veniva scelto dal presidente. The vice-president would get chosen by the president.
4c) Active: Il presidente sceglierà il vicepresidente. The president will choose the vice-president.
4d) Passive: Il vicepresidente verrà scelto dal presidente. The vice-president will get chosen by the president.
4e) Active: Il presidente sceglierebbe il vicepresidente. The president would choose the vice-president.
4f) Passive: Il vicepresidente verrebbe scelto dal presidente. The vice-president would get chosen by the president.
5) Sto sporcando il pavimento, mi dispiace (I'm getting the floor dirty, sorry).
6) Si è sporcato il pavimento, mi dispiace (the floor got dirty, I'm sorry).
Thanks for reading. Let us know if you have questions, or examples to try out. We'll try our best to help out.
You can write to us at newsletter@yabla.com
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